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96 <br />1 with the notice of violation and the cessation <br />2 order would go to the state, but they would <br />3 constitute increased motive, if you will, incentive <br />4 for a recalcitrant coal operator to do what -- to <br />5 carry out the abatement action. In this instance <br />6 the abatement action would be to pay the judgment. <br />7 If the operator went through the whole <br />8 course of a $22,500 civil penalty, maxed out civil <br />9 penalty under the surface mining regulation, that <br />10 operator would then find it very difficult to <br />11 obtain permits in the future unless and until they <br />12 pay the judgment. <br />13 This is all leverage that a person in <br />14 the position of the Tatums have the opportunity to <br />15 invoke under this program. Again, I think it very <br />16 remote that they would have to do that. <br />17 MR. HELD: Well, perhaps I didn't <br />18 articulate myself very well because I thought I <br />19 said exactly what you just said, which is you can <br />20 have a lot of -- you could create a lot of <br />21 administrative problems regarding permitting and <br />22 civil penalties, but you could not -- there isn't <br />23 anything, as far as you've said, that would <br />24 actually - - where the division could actually make <br />25 Basin pay you the judgment you received in civil <br />