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<br />Mr. Burr: Did you answer my question of how many acres at the start of <br />the wilderness and how many acres we have now? Because there are several <br />up above Estes Park. It is up in there that they are trying to get <br />through. There are another 200,000 acres. <br /> <br />Mr. Hauk: And so far, these are still proposals. Very few have actually I <br />been reclassified and formally designated by Congress as wilderness. <br />They are still talking about it. <br /> <br />Mr. Burr: Why don't they get something done instead of just talking <br />about it? <br /> <br />Mr. Ten Evck: I would like to bring out that many environmentalists <br />take the view that in the past the Forest Service has listened more to <br />the grazers, to the foresters, to the mineral interests, and to what- <br />ever other interests that may be interested. Now that they are finding <br />that they do have a little clout politically, they are trying to use it, <br />which is nothing new to the cattlemen, nothing new to the foresters. <br />And this is putting the Forest Service in a little different box than <br />they used to be before. I don't think that it is necessarily fun for <br />them, but I don't think it is improper that this other kind of interest <br />also be concerned and represented and make its points. I think that <br />there is a legitimate concern, maybe an exaggerated one by some, and of <br />extreme positions by others. But I think if you look at it what is <br />happening in Colorado mountain valleys, Vail and elsewhere, are the kinds <br />of things that are scaring a lot of environmentalists. If we let that <br />keep going on we are going to have the thing allover the country, right <br />up to the edge of what used to be a primitive area. They ,are scared. <br />In some cases, I don't blame them. I think there is some merit in their <br />position and I think the cattlemen are gOing to have to learn to cope <br />with these people and they may even have to learn to live with them. It <br />may not be easy. <br /> <br />Mr. Staoleton: Tom, I think for the record also, it should be pointed <br />out that this board has never turned down a presentation from any of <br />these groups. Mrs. Ruth Weiner and I got to be good friends. Intellec- <br />tually: Many of you have met Mrs. Weiner from time to time. So, I <br />think we try to be fair. We have to have a balance with them and they I <br />with us. And just as they have had some influence in the last few <br />years, you and I had to plan how we can get the gas and the electricity <br />and all these other things. I think there is going to be a leveling <br />process that has to come about, and we are going to be a part of it just - <br />as they are. But we don't want the record to say that we have been <br />negative'. <br /> <br />-32- <br />