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<br />I <br /> <br />I <br /> <br />Mr. Burr: Mr. Chairman, of course, you know the cattlemen don't like <br />wilderness areas. We don't care for them. They are getting larger all <br />the while and if this is owned by the government, tell me what advantage <br />it is and regulated by the Forest Service what advantage would it be to <br />withdraw that and isolate it out for a wilderness area where you just <br />have a certain number that can get in there on horseback? <br /> <br />Mr. Hauk: This has been our position and demonstrated in the proposal <br />that we submitted to Congress. But the thing is that the wilderness <br />advocates are sincere. They feel that on top of the, you might say, <br />the very distinct boundaries, they need a buffer area around it too. <br />We get the feeling that some of those people are more interested in <br />acres, rather than quality wilderness. That is why I mentioned the <br />fact that we get concerned and have been 'accused of being puritans <br />because we don't include some of the land that other groups think we <br />should. I am sure it will come up again irregardless of the Flat Tops <br />because a lot of that country, especially on the east side, is in a <br />grazing situation and it has been for years. A lot of that will go <br />into this. All of that yellow that you see on the right hand side and <br />the center, a lot of that is grazing land. <br /> <br />Mr. Burr: What are you going to do with the grazing? <br /> <br />Mr. Hauk: It will still be allowed. <br /> <br />Mr. Burr: In most of the land in these wilderness areas grazing isn't <br />allowed. <br /> <br />Mr. Hauk: Well yes, you can still graze. They run sheep up on top of <br />the Flat Tops now. They run sheep in the Maroon Bells-Snowmass wil- <br />derness. But the time may come when the sheep and the cattle may be <br />eliminated, 1 don't know. <br /> <br />Mr. Ford: Is it true that you have regulations right now that you can <br />control wilderness areas without blocking the stuff up from now on? <br /> <br />Mr. Hauk: Well, yes. <br /> <br />Mr. Ford: Yes, and you have to sell the timber. You tell them how <br />many cattle, how many sheep they can raise there. They can still pro- <br />spect there for minerals up to 1985? So why not conserve instead of <br />preserve this stuff? Keep it so we can use it if we need it. <br /> <br />Mr. Hauk: We find ourselves continually in the middle of this. We <br />can't win. <br /> <br />-29- <br />