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~8::S FRYINGPAN-ARKANSAS PROJECT, COLORADO Mr. HALEY. About $18 million nonreimbursable. So that would Jeave approximately $151 million that is reimbursable to the Federal Government. Mr. PALMER. Actually, it is $153,962,000. 1\fr.l-IALEY. I am just using rough figures here. Mr. PALMER. Yes sir. Mr. HALEY. Because a million dollnr's more or less does not. mean anyt hing anymore.. .' Now the interest on tlllS money that. IS relmbursable does not start accumulating unt.il t.he project is completed1 is that right~. . 1111'. PALMER. No, sir, not completely. There are two klllds of m- terest. involved j one is intere.st. during construction, which would a.p- ply Oll the municipal-industrial and power ff'_utures and th~ other one, of course is interest that would be earned after completIOn of con- struction'through to payout, when that has been achieved. The inter- est dllrinO' construction is listed in this payout. analysis. Mr.IL~LEY. It is listed in there! Mr. PAUIER. Yes, sir. Mr. HALEY. At what.percent1 Mr. PAL"ER. The current. cert.ificat.ion of the Treasnry, which is 2.U32 percent.. . Mr. I-IALEY. Is t.he Treasury borrowing money at t.his figure now ~ Mr. PALMER. Under the 'Vater Supply Act. formula, the interest. rate certified by the Treasury is the amount. due ami payable on long-term bonds having n maturity date, not callable, or maturing for at least 15 years. all outstanding long-term obligations, in other words, which, according to the celtificlltioll of the Treasury for this yenr is 2.G32 percent. Mr. H.'LEY. That. is what. they are paying for the money now! Mr. PALMER. No, sir. That is the aveI"Rge cost of interest on all long-term obligations of the Treasury. 1\11'. H,\LEY. Of course, when you get this money from the Treasury aTHI from the taxpayers now Y011 are hn.Ting to pay approximately 5 percent.. Is that not. true 1 :Mr. P,\LMF.n. The chairman of t.he full eommittee made n very astute obsernttion when he pointeel out that the water resource development program, whether by the corps or by the Bureau or by any ot.her agency of t.he Federal Go\"ernme,nt, ought to have a uniform interest formula. The expression of Congress, fiS enunc.iated in the 'Vater Supply Act. of 1958, is the formuli that nets t.his 2.632 as celi.ified by the Treasury. It. is the same interest. formula t.hat would be used on corps projeds or SCS project.s or any others where interest is in- vol ved. Mr. I-IALEY. Of course, that is where we are getting into trouble on these thing-s und where I think t.he American people and the tax- payers are being misled. I do not. think anybody can refute this: That it is costing t.he Treasury of the United :::itates today approxi- ma.tely 5 percent to horrow llloney and yon have to borrow money in order to construct this. No\,' \\'hen you start paying that money bac',k, ~rou pay it back based on a 2.()3~, so you have a ~nbsidy in there that. the taxpayers all m'er the Nat.ion mnst. pick np over a period of f.iO years of appruximately 21/~ pereent. Now 21jz percent over n perioa of fiO years is a considerable amount. of money that. goes into these subsi<lies.