Recreational Instream Flow Workshop Tanscription of Meeting Tape

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a how many people have to be in the river for the owner of the water right to prevent upstream appropriations. You know if there is one kayaker using the course. I mean can they really preclude upstream communities from developing junior water rights. Um another you know administrative issue is I mean Can they call for water 24 hours a day seven days a week to the full amount of water that's in the river and prevent any future upstream appropriations. There's protection not only in statue but also inherent in Colorado water law is the "doctrine of maximum utilization of water" and I think if we have to absolutely have water flow through recreational flow streeches uh stretches that uh you know we really will see a preclusion of any water development upstream. This is particularly important I think in situations where a water right is filed at the bottom of a watershed. You know I mean that owner of that water right can essentially control water use upstream of that. I mean they have got the key and it gives them the right then to you know, as they need water, they've tied up the water in the stream no further upstream appropriations can be made and they can go ahead and start filing for junior water rights maybe just below the kayak course for reservoirs or for whatever. Um, so it's a real issue I think the state has to wrestle with. You know another example and I think Gary said it earlier was that he has designed kayak courses near Grand Junction. Um you know the next step may be big filing for a water right on the Colorado River that could really impinge on the state's ability to use our compact apportionment. Um you know that's not beyond the realm of possibility as we start looking for flows that are trying to appropriate the entire unappropriated amount of water in a river. Um another issue that arises under existing law I think is uh you know, what is the burden of proof to establish a flow rate for these recreational um rights? You know, if put the boat chutes as we talked a bit earlier on a wide channel. If you put the boat chutes at the outside of the channel Um then obviously the spring run off, I mean you don't have any constraints whatsoever you can really require that the entire river flow down and fill the boat chutes. Um so you know something as simple as the location of boat chutes I think becomes an issue as to how you establish a recreational water right. Um, It also has some important policy issues I think that are inherent. Um you know, who should be allowed to appropriate these rights? Under existing law it's true I think the cities do have the authority to do it. But how do you prevent or limit these appropriations if they've got wider goals than just recreational use. You know if there is an entity that's trying to control land use upstream or control water development or as I said reserve water rights for other uses later. Those are all policy issues that I think are very important to CWCB. Um and its Clear Creek's position that this really is an issue that we the hope CWCB and the State Engineer get involved in because, you know there's a lot of situations where there's small upstream communities that don't have the economic where - with -all to really get involved in these fights and litigate these important issues for the state. Um,'I should also say that Clear Creek County is not opposed to recreational instream flow water rights with proper constraints. And so really the county's message I think to CWCB today is that um, you know minimum flows for recreational uses with reasonable constraints are totally acceptable. Uh, but claims for huge flows that would preclude any future water development on the stream, I think goes beyond um what should be decreed for these kind of water rights. And I think the last point is that um, nobody can lose sight of how devastating this can be for a small community if you have absolutely no ability to develop water resources. Eric? Eric Kuhn Just a question, what would be the difference between a 1000 cfs water right for recreation and at the Golden location or a power right? Paul Zilis Well I think, I think you know the problem with recreational rights is although you know the price per structure is expensive. It's nowhere near what it takes to establish a water right and build a facility for hydropower Eric Wilkinson You didn't answer the question H