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0 • Species Act, an experimental status for populations of Colorado squawfish and woundfins in 8 rivers in Arizona. There has been quite a bit of burecratic foul-up in Washington with getting the experimental designa- tion completed. We expect to have it done by fall and hope to plant about 100,000 squawfish and as many woundfins as we can produce at that time. The difference again, is the razorback suckers are not a listed species. We've said hands off on razorback sucker scheduling. We are just going to grow them, see if we can get them going, save the species and not get tied up in burecratic knots. The other two are already listed species, the bonytail and woundfin, as is the squawfish. So we are going for something called an experimental-nonessential designa- tion for these fishes. What that means is that the Feds will not de- clare critical habitat, and will not do Section VII consultations. . We will consult or confer with other Federal agencies--that is about as far as we will go into it. That is for the.woundfin and squawfish. Bonytail is a little different. It appears to be literally on the brink of extinction, except for the population we have at Dexter. We will probably have to go essential-experimental, which means they will be a threatened species: Under such we w go to a Section VII consultation, but under the experimental banner., we will not declare critical habitat on the reintroduced populations. We will try our best not to interfere with ongoing programs. That is the whole idea of experimental. Eventually, if we are successful, in our reintroduction attempts, then we will have to face the same problem that Region 6 is facing now, and that is--do we try to protect these habitats. That to me, is so far down the line, I can't plan. For instance, we are suggesting that it is going to take us 10 years of reintroduction of razorbacks to de- termine if the reintroduction is successful or not. You can't dust put 20, or 40 or 100 of these critters in and expect them to be success- ful. We are putting the best effort we can into this thing--10 years for stocking both fry andfingerlings on razorback suckers and woundfins. If after the 10 year period, the species still will not survive in Arizona waters, then we ought to look at it truly as an endangered species. We are giving it our best shot and if we do successfully have reproducing populations in the Lower Basin, then I think it is a very strong question whether we should list the razorback sucker or not. Liles - how do you see the Lower Basin's recovery plan tying back into the Upper Basin Plan? /J 2.?dYh.f Johnson - the way we've approached it in Albuquerque is to use the recovery plans themselves as the guiding documents. Our recovery plans are simpler, I believe, than the Upper Basin States. They have to pro tect habitat. All we have to do is reintroduce and see if we can get the population to build. Therefore, we have used the recovery plan as a guide. The Upper Basin States believed they needed a different docu- ment to help them in their planning. Green - the recovery plan is a part of the overall in the Conserva- tion Plan. ti 29