9298

• UCREFRP Catalog Number: 9298
• Author: Water Education Foundation.
• Title: Colorado River Project
• USFW Year: 1999.
• USFW - Doc Type: Symposium Proceedings.
• Copyright Material: NO

question. We're still discovering, we're still learning,
we're still investigating what it is that the ecosystems
and environment of the Colorado River Basin need.
So this is something that we won't necessarily be able
to nail down and determine. That's one reason why
we have an adaptive management program for
operations at Glen Canyon Dam. It would be hubris
to think we knew everything that the natural system
needed.
To the question of human needs. We all think we
know what we need but actually it's a good question.
Stop and think: What do humans need from the
Colorado River system? Go beyond just the kind of
usual way of thinking about what we need and think:
What is at the core of what we need? We think we
need dams. We think we need levees. We think we
need certain things. But why do we need those
things? Do we need security? Do we need wet water?
These are things that can go into then trying to
balance and trying to get some sense of not favoring
the human system over the natural system.
Now going to the question of how will we know
when they are in balance. There's been a lot of
skepticism so far that we can actually achieve balance.
But I have a sense that, to a certain extent, we know
we haven't had balance in the past. And why do we
know that? Because we're getting to the point where
we're realizing that some of our actions are not
sustainable.
To me, achieving balance is achieving a point at
which, for multiple generations into the future, we're
not jeopardizing human existence, not to mention
the ecosystem's existence, for those generations down
the line. We're looking for sOqIething along the lines
of a sustainable Colorado River system, both for the
system itself and for those of us who are actually, as
Bob points out, part of the system and need it to be
functioning for our children, our grandchildren, and
their grandchildren.

THOMAS TURNEY, STATE ENGINEER,

NEW MExIco

I'm going to address the part of the question about
when does balance occur. I agree - a perfect balance
is not possible. I don't even know what that means.
But certainly balancing does begin to occur when you
have respect and recognition for each stakeholder's
position, when each stakeholder begins to realize that
he's not going to get 100 percent of what he wants.
Maybe that is when a balance occurs, when some sort
of solution is found that all the stakeholders can live
with.

BILL SNAPE, LEGAL DIRECTOR,

DEFENDERS OF WILDUFE
I don't know what balance is either and I'm not
sure any of us ever will. What I am doing now is
focusing on imbalance. I think it's pretty clear we're
in imbalance. The fish on the u.s. side of the border
are not doing well. The cottonwood and willow
stands on the U.S. side of the bordet are not doing
well. The Delta in Mexico is not doing well. In terms
of when we'll see balance or a reversal of this imbal-
ance, I guess the best test I can give you is the
Supreme Court's general test for obscenity, which is,
"I'll know it when I see it."

SWAN: Moving from the general to the specific. We
all know that one of the major problems in this area
of environmental issues is the Endangered Species
Act, so we'd like to talk about that a little bit. In the
Lower Basin, you probably know that we're trying to
put together the Multiple Species Conservation
Program, the MSCP. But in the Upper Basin, they
have programs ongoing. The Upper Basin Endan-
gered Fish Recovery Program and the San Juan
Recovery Program have been in operation for a
number of years.
The question is: Is it fair to call those Upper Basin
programs a success? Are we far enough along to do
that? Are they a success in regard to recovering the
fish and balancing the human environmenral needs?
In addition, what major problems are yet to be
addressed in those Upper Basin circumstances?

MUTH: Let me first give a brief thumbnail sketch
of the Upper Basin Recovery Program, just to set the
stage. The Upper Basin Recovery Program was
established in 1988 and has, as its goal, the recovery
of the endangered humpback chub, bony tail,
Colorado pikeminnow, and razorback sucker in
Upper Basin rivers. The program is an inter-agency,
interstate cooperative effort and has as its underlying
principle, recovery of the fish while allowing water
development to continue in compliance with the ESA
and under state water laws and respective interstate
compacts. The program operates by consensus so that
all partners agree to share in the responsibilities and
the risks involved in the program. I believe the
program is fairly adaptive. It seems to respond well to
changes in information and changes in conditions.
The answer to the question of whether or not the
program is a success, I think that answer really lies in
how you would define success. I believe in terms of a
framework and a process for recovery, the program is
a success. I've been involved in research and also

THE
BALANCING
ACT

SYMPOSIUM
PROCEEDINGS
SEPTEMBER 1999

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